[INDOLOGY] Sandhi and grammar

[rajam]

///I meant "grammar" in a very loose and general way.  I.e. things about the language other than the sounds of the language./// 

There is the answer to your own question! 

In our traditional understanding of Tamil, “grammar” includes an analysis of sounds, syllables, and words. 

Regards,
rajam 



> On Feb 23, 2024, at 8:12 PM, Harry Spier <vasishtha.spier at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Rajam,
> I meant "grammar" in a very loose and general way.  I.e. things about the language other than the sounds of the language.  So for example  I wondered why  in sanskrit should  ī ,ū or e when dual terminations (and only when dual terminations) remain unchanged before vowels.. In other words why should whether a termination is "dual" or not effect its being changed by following sounds.  Or why should internal sandhi be any different from external sandhi.
> 
> I received this response from Michael Witzel and I don't think he would mind if I share it.
> one  has to look at Sandhi as the product of various historical sound changes, some Indo-Iranian (RUKI rule), some pre-Indo-Aryan, some Vedic…
> 
> Thus: ī ,ū or e when dual terminations  remain unchanged before vowels.
> 
> This is historical:  ī, ū are  from < i+H (laryngeal), u + H  > with regular change to ī,ū.  The laryngeal disappeared with regular  lengthening of the vowel, but speakers “remembered” the gap it left.
> 
> Like French Le Havre, not l’Avre. (from Germanic H-)
> 
> Harry Spier
> 
> 
> On Fri, Feb 23, 2024 at 10:57 PM rajam <rajam at earthlink.net <mailto:rajam at earthlink.net>> wrote:
> Kindly pardon my ignorance. Please let us know how you define “grammar.” 
> 
> Thanks and regards,
> rajam 
> 
> 
>> On Feb 22, 2024, at 7:02 AM, Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>> 
>> Dear list members,
>> I've wondered for a long time why sanskrit sandhi has any dependence on grammar and is not solely determined by preceding or following letters/sounds.
>> 
>> For example why should internal sandhi have any differences from external sandhi. As MacDonell says, "The most notable divergence from external sandhi is the unchangeableness of the final consonans of verbal and nominal stems before terminations beginning with vowels, semivowels and nasal
>> 
>> Or why should  ī ,ū or e when dual terminations (and only when dual terminations) remain unchanged before vowels.
>> 
>> In other words, in these cases why should grammar and not just adjacent sounds determine whether sandhi occurs.
>> Thanks,
>> Harry Spier
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology <https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology>
> 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology/attachments/20240223/b5ee620c/attachment.htm>