[INDOLOGY] Whitney and doubling of "ch"

Fri Oct 20 13:34:38 UTC 2023

This paper may be of interest in the context of scribal practice:

   - Chakraborty, Deepro, Jason Eric Birch, Dominik Wujastyk, Andrey
   Klebanov, Harshal Bhatt, Madhusudan Rimal, and Vandana Lele. 2021. “The
   Graphemes Ch and Cch in the Nepalese Script.” Academia Letters, 1–7.
   https://doi.org/10.20935/al3954.

On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 at 03:45, Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> This discussion of paurushetva and apaurusheyatva of the Vedas is not
> related to , so a digression from the present relevant topic of primacy of
> orality while deciding the 'spelling' of certain
> phonetic/phomemic sequences.
>
> Prof. Hock, Hans Henrich brought up the pertinent point of primacy of
> orality while deciding the 'spelling'  and Sri Harry Spier too rightly is
> focusing his attention on that aspect and trying to know the history /
> chronology of the shift from orality alone situation to literate
> (oral-literate dual ? ) situation..
>
> गीती शीघ्री शिरःकम्पी तथा *लिखितपाठकः *।
> अनर्थज्ञोऽल्पकण्ठश्च षडेते पाठकाधमाः ।। ३२ ।।
>
> is from पाणिनीयशिक्षा/सप्तमखण्डः available here
> <https://sa.wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A3%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%80%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%B6%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%95%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B7%E0%A4%BE/%E0%A4%B8%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%96%E0%A4%A3%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A1%E0%A4%83>
> .
>
> So , that is the reason , the guru in Pune was apologetic in saying that
> the sishyas were using the printed version only tentatively.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 12:21 PM alakendu das via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Mr. Hart,
>> Mahabharata's  'Shantiparva ( 210/19)  specifically mentions the *Apaurasheya
>> "** nature of the *Vedas.
>>
>> " Hrrishaya MantraDrashtarO
>>    Na tu Bedasya Kartaro"
>>  Na Kaschid Veda Karta cha
>>  VedaSmarta Chaturbhuja".
>>
>> SayanaAcharya's commentary on Vedas, too, reflects an identical view
>>
>> "*Josya niswashitam Veda jo VedabhyaAkhilam Jogot. "....*
>>
>> *I apologise for my inability to type in Sanskrit.*
>>
>> *Any further elucidation/ correction  on the above would be highly
>> beneficial.*
>>
>> *Regards*
>> *Alakendu Das*
>>
>>
>> From: indology at list.indology.info
>> Sent: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 03:04:48
>> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Whitney and doubling of "ch"
>>
>>
>> Well, perhaps not entirely apauruṣeya. See the RV:
>>
>> ए॒तं ते॒ स्तोमं॑ तुविजात॒ विप्रो॒ रथं॒ न धीरः॒ स्वपा॑ अतक्षम् ।
>> यदीद॑ग्ने॒ प्रति॒ त्वं दे॑व॒ हर्याः॒ स्व॑र्वतीर॒प ए॑ना जयेम ॥ ५.००२.११
>>
>> On Oct 19, 2023, at 12:13 PM, alakendu das via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Mr. Spier,
>>
>> What we have learnt from Indological studies, Vedas were never written.
>> We call it "Apaurasheya"... i. e. not written.
>> The Vedic Mantras came as revealations to the seers( we call them
>> 'Drashta" i. e. one who sees) while in Meditation.
>> The hymns or mantras were then recited orally and passed on across
>> generations of disciples. who memorised them.
>> Finally, sage Vyasa arranged a compilation and  divided them among his 4
>> disciples namely, Poilo, Boishampayan, Jaimini and Sumanta.
>> Thus we got the 4 Vedas
>>
>> In the 19th Century, Max Mueller edited the
>> Vedas.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Alakendu  Das.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: indology at list.indology.info
>> Sent: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 19:40:15
>> To: "Hock, Hans Henrich" <hhhock at illinois.edu>
>> Cc: McComas Taylor via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Whitney and doubling of "ch"
>>
>>
>> Hans Heinrich Hock wrote:
>>
>>> Whatever the motivation may be for the spelling with a single <ch> in
>>> the Rig Veda (and let’s keep in mind that the “real” Rig Veda is oral),
>>>
>> 1) Can someone point me to some article on when and why the Rg-veda was
>> first written down . what script etc.  Was it a British initiative or was
>> the whole or parts written down before the colonial period?  I've seen in a
>> modern Taittiriya Vedashala the students practicing some of their mantras
>> using  written material.  Did the medieval and later Vedashalas also use
>> written materials to teach their students?
>>
>> 2) Is it possible that this  "Rg-veda written spelling gachati etc." is
>> just a reflection of what was written when the Rg-veda was first written
>> down?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Harry Spier
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
> Senior Director, IndicA
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
> BoS Kavikulaguru Kalidasa Sanskrit University, Ramtek, Maharashtra
> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
> BoS Rashtram School of Public Leadership
> Editor-in-Chief, International Journal of Studies in Public Leadership
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
>
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