[INDOLOGY] yāvantaḥ kiyantaḥ

Thu Dec 14 19:37:13 UTC 2023

As almost always, Monier-Williams’ entries provide English translations of
the German entries in Böhtlingk's dictionary (cp. R. Steiner, „Woher hat er
das? Zum Charakter des *Sanskrit-English Dictionary *von Monier-Williams.“ ZDMG
170 (2020): 107ff.). In order to understand what MW's "*as many as*" was
supposed to mean, we have to ask (with Steiner): “Where did he get that
from?”. The answer is to be found in the German meaning of Böhtlingk’s
dictionary:

"*yā́vantaḥ kíyantaḥ* [=] wie viele immer" (PW and pw).
German "*wie viele immer*" corresponds to "*wie viele auch immer*", and
this is the exact equivalent of "*however many*".

Regards,
WS

Am Do., 14. Dez. 2023 um 20:01 Uhr schrieb Oliver Hellwig via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info>:

> I found a few occurrences of a construction that looks like the one you
> have in mind:
>
> AVŚ, 8, 7 yāvatīḥ kiyatīś cemāḥ pṛthivyām adhy oṣadhīḥ /
> JB, 1, 80 athaitarhi yāvad eva kiyac ca dadati //
> MS, 2, 3, 2 yāvatām eva kiyatāṃ ca gṛhād ājyam āharanti teṣāṃ sarveṣāṃ
> manāṃsi saṃgṛhṇāti //
>
> Seems to be restricted to the old language. The AV example may be most
> relevant. Also note the eva-ca construction in the two other examples. I
> guess Kyoko Amano has discussed the MS passage in case it's contained in
> her translation.
>
> Best, Oliver
>
>
>
> On 14/12/2023 19:51, Brendan S. Gillon, Prof. via INDOLOGY wrote:
> > Greetings,
> >
> > One possibility is that MW had in mind constructions with `as many as'
> > where an expression may occur between the occurrence of `as many' and
> > the second occurrence of `as': as many X as Y.
> > There are as many men as women in the room.
> > As many people speak Gujarati as speak Marathi.
> > Best wishes,
> > Brendan
> >
> >
> > On 2023-12-14 13:03, Allen, Michael S (msa2b) via INDOLOGY wrote:
> >> Dear Herman,
> >>
> >> I can't help with the /TBr /reference, but I thought it might be
> >> helpful to note that "as many as" need not take a number in English.
> >> It's grammatically possible to say, e.g., "As many as commit violence
> >> will be brought to justice" (with the meaning "however many," as Hans
> >> suggests).
> >>
> >> This usage is probably archaic—I can't imagine hearing it today
> >> outside of intentionally rhetorical, poetic, or jocular contexts—but
> >> it would have been familiar to Monier-Williams. It's employed
> >> frequently in the King James Bible, for example.
> >>
> >> Best wishes,
> >> Michael
> >>
> >> Michael S. Allen
> >> Associate Professor
> >> Department of Religious Studies
> >> University of Virginia
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------
> >> *From:* INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
> >> Tieken, H.J.H. (Herman) via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> >> *Sent:* Thursday, December 14, 2023 12:31 PM
> >> *To:* Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
> >> *Subject:* [INDOLOGY] yāvantaḥ kiyantaḥ
> >> Dear list members,
> >>
> >> In the /Āyāraṃgasutta/ a phrase is found corresponding to Skt
> >> /yāvantaḥ kiyantaḥ/. MW gives as its meaning "as many as". I am not a
> >> native speaker of English, but as far as I know this phrase is
> >> specifically used with numbers ("as many as a hundred people ...). In
> >> the passage concerned there is no number. It functions as a subject to
> >> either a verb meaning "they commit violence" or nouns/adjectives like
> >> /araṃbhajīvī /and /pariggahāvaṃtī./
> >> MW refers to /TBr/, without, however, a place or an example.
> >> I hope someone on the list can provide me with an (or the) example
> >> from the /TBr/ or any other text.
> >>
> >> With kind regards, Herman
> >>
> >> Herman Tieken
> >> Stationsweg 58
> >> 2515 BP Den Haag
> >> The Netherlands
> >> 00 31 (0)70 2208127
> >> website: hermantieken.com <http://hermantieken.com/>
> >>
> >> /The Aśoka Inscriptions: Analysing a corpus/, New Delhi: Primus Books,
> >> 2023.
> >>
> https://primusbooks.com/ancient/the-asoka-inscriptions-analysing-a-corpus-by-herman-tieken/
> <
> https://primusbooks.com/ancient/the-asoka-inscriptions-analysing-a-corpus-by-herman-tieken/
> >
> >>
> >> /
> >> /
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Brendan S. Gillon                       email:brendan.gillon at mcgill.ca
> > Department of Linguistics
> > McGill University                       tel.:  001 514 398 4868
> > 1085, Avenue Docteur-Penfield
> > Montreal, Quebec                        fax.:  001 514 398 7088
> > H3A 1A7  CANADA
> >
> > webpage:http://webpages.mcgill.ca/staff/group3/bgillo/web/
> >
> >
> >
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